Podcast: Episode 107: Conversations with Graduates – Changing Gait Patterns in An 11 Year Old, Helping Women Embody Post-Partum: with Kris Inglis and Jennifer Vanderland

In previous episodes, we’ve heard from students who are currently undertaking the certification program as well as students who have recently completed the program, but this week’s guests are joining us several years after graduating from the program to update us on where they’re at now.

I’m interviewing Kris Inglis and Jennifer Vanderland, both of whom graduated 2 months after the pandemic shut us down in 2020. They are great examples of how to make it work and elevate the experience of stepping into a potential you know inside is there for you. They're here to share their stories since graduation, and some great insights for people wanting to build out a yoga therapy business.

Listen in this week and hear some examples of how they have implemented what they’ve learned in the program into their rigorous schedules, and what led them to the place of really integrating what they’ve learned. They share the changes they’ve made in their businesses since the pandemic, their advice for anybody considering the program who has a full life already, and the results they are seeing in their lives and their clients’ lives.

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What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • The various phases of a yoga therapist.
  • Why pain isn’t always the problem and how Kris recognized this in his youngest client.
  • The self-care element of the certification and why it is so important to implement following the program.
  • Why you have to live the work that is taught in the program in order to teach others.
  • Some advice to anybody considering the program but who is concerned about their role as a parent and how they will fit it into their schedule

Full Episode Transcript:

Male Announcer: You’re listening to From Pain to Possibility with Susi Hately. You will hear Susi’s best ideas on how to reduce or even eradicate your pain and learn how to listen to your body when it whispers so you don’t have to hear it scream. And now here’s your host, Susi Hately.

You'll notice that this episode is significantly longer than most of the episodes that I record. The reason for this is because I'm interviewing Kris Inglis and Jennifer Vanderland, both who are graduates of the certification program. And they graduated back in 2020, so it's been two years since they graduated and I wanted to have them share their stories since graduation, what they're doing with their students. And some of the stuff is so cool that you're going to hear.

But also the second half we get into like them answering a key question that we often get around people who are working full-time or who are moms and or working full time, and how do they manage their time? How do they actually do the program and not burnout? And I'm really excited to be sharing this because my program is not one about burnout at all.

In fact, I think that if you aren't nurturing yourself and you're teaching someone else how to nurture themselves, there's a real misalignment. So we're going to get into all that great juiciness in just one moment.

But first, if as you're listening to this you are really resonating with what they're talking about and what is possible for you, and you're interested in our certification program it's IAYT accredited, we would love for you to join us. Just fire us off an email to [email protected].

And so without further ado, let's get going.

Susi: All right, welcome and welcome back. I am so delighted for today because this is like a reunion of sorts. I have two of my graduates who graduated two months after the pandemic shut us all down, Jen Vanderland and Kris Inglis. And they're here today because I wanted to share some stories of what happens after certification.

So I talk a lot about in certification and we talk to people newly out, but this is a couple years out and they've also navigated the pandemic. So I wanted to share their stories because they’ve got some really cool stuff that they're doing and some really good insights for people who are wanting to build out a yoga therapy business, ways that they've worked with it, how they work online, if they're coming back to in person, we'll find that out too.

But let's just get going. So welcome, Jen and Kris. It's so much fun, it really does feel like a reunion, because it's been so long since I've seen you.

Jen: Yeah, it’s so good to be here. Thanks for having us.

Kris: Yeah, it's great to be here.

Susi: So tell me, Kris, why don't we start with you. You were in the program, you had a child, your wife was in school, you were in school. So tell us where you are and then we'll harken back to all of that stuff that was going on during certification. But tell us what you're doing now.

Kris: So currently, like right now I am still running everything that I created to go online when we got shut down from the pandemic. I pivoted quickly and just got everything online, both private one on one stuff and some public group stuff. There's been some people that have just fallen in love with that way of working from home and still feel that they want to continue that. So I just have kept it going because the people keep showing up.

And now we're back in person, so back teaching both publicly in person. I do like a little drop in, yoga therapy drop in class. And I've also just recently started up a yoga therapy for seniors, it’s like a chair class. And these classes are fantastic, just a great way for people to get to know me and just kind of one shot a week do some work. And then we build a relationship and they may or may not want to join into some other programs I have or move forward.

So yeah, we're back in person, one on one. It's all just kind of coming back together. It's really, really cool to have both elements at play.

Susi: And so, Kris, remind me, where are you living right now?

Kris: I live in Ponoka, Alberta. So, if anyone knows Alberta, just a little bit south of Edmonton.

Susi: And you're not doing anything online at all now and it's all in person?

Kris: No, I am. It is online. So I've got three classes a week online that I run and they all have different themes to them and we have different focuses. Some are very educational, like really learning about the body and biomechanics. Some are strength and core based. Some are just a full body kind of drop in practice. And then I teach some one on ones online as well.

And now I'm back in person, so there's a little space I rent here and Ponoka that I teach in public as well. And then I have people in my home studio, one on one as well.

Susi: So when you graduated, we had spent all of this time through our program helping you build out your programs in person so like, or right near the very end. Like we're in the last mile, basically, of the marathon and things shut down, you transition online. What have you loved, or liked about being online?

Kris: Oh, I have actually, what surprised me the most is that what I loved about it is that I started creating classes differently. I started just exploring, I guess I'll put it this way, in person I get to see a lot. We were trained to see with our eyes and online classes, not everyone wants to flip their camera on, especially some of the demographics that were showing up.

So here, all of a sudden, I am teaching and I'm not seeing people anymore, which is literally what we learned. Like it's like the thing to see with your eyes. And so then all of a sudden I started coming up with these, stringing together these really cool, got really creative.

And it was just like the sequences and the ideas of why I would do this and why I would do this just in my own internal processes really started to evolve and kind of blossom in just a different way. So then coming back into person, blending those two elements together were really cool. So I think it actually made me a better teacher somehow.

Susi: Because you couldn't rely on the skill that you had grown.

Kris: Yep, I had to tap into something else that I didn't really know it was there. And usually what I do before is I would see people move and I'd create the class, not all the time, but most of them I’d create the class as it goes. So as I see people move, how they show up, and who they are I'm like, oh, we're going to do this today.

And then when I see that happen, it's like, okay, we’re definitely not going to do that anymore, we're going to do this now and it just kind of blends and molds. And that was one of my strengths of teaching publicly in person and group classes, I knew it was. So now I found that was gone and I had to like, yeah, just tap into a different side.

Susi: That's great. And so you've got a demographic that really spans the ages that it sounds like. So what's the youngest group that you work with? And when you're talking about seniors, what's the age category that you're working with?

Kris: My seniors class right now, surprise, it is my funnest. It honestly is one of the best classes. The demographic, the age is anywhere between 60 and 85. It's not just for seniors, really I created it for anyone with like hip, knee, shoulder replacements, osteoarthritis, spinal fusions, just people that can't get up and off the floor.

So there are some younger people that do come but yeah, it’s mainly seniors. So that's my oldest demographic, and it's just such a fun class. People get results really quickly the older they get, I find.

And the youngest, I've worked with, I mean, I've currently got an 11 year old that I'm working with privately who was like her internal rotation of her feet is so much that it's slowing her down on the playground, her friends are kind of asking questions. And they went to a specialist at Edmonton Royal and the doctor, the surgeon said the only way to fix that is by breaking your legs and putting them in casts.

And I was like, what? Like, well let's try some things. And sure enough, there's results. So yeah, I’ve worked with a couple kids.

Susi: Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You just said a story about like, people are going to be hearing this saying, “Wait a second, the doctor said we have to break the legs and you did some stuff. And there's some changes being made.” Kris: Oh yeah.

Susi: So to Jen and myself, we're thinking, well, of course we get that tissue can change. But let's break that out a little bit because what are you specifically doing? And what do you feel is the couple of things that are the things that are supporting her in her movement patterns?

Kris: So where I started with her, well, first I had to find out was there anything, like is there any hardware like fusing bones together? And once I found like, no, I’m like, okay, well soft tissue can change, like you already said, right? So then I just started with like looking at the planes of movement and the biomechanics and kind of playing there.

And we got some results but then I kind of started to take on, okay, what is underneath just movement and who the person is? And I started to discover, I was working with this girl that she was quite shy and she felt a little reserved and her confidence level may have been not where it could be.

And so then I started kind of letting go of the biomechanics. I still was focusing and thinking of that stuff when I chose movement for her, but then I got her doing like really fun, I made her session super fun and super goofy where she could just like come out of her shell. And I did some like walk, I would be like I want you to, could you take little short little strides and steps? And her feet would just go shuffle on the ground.

And I’m like I don't even know if this is tissue, this could just be like just she might just feel shy in front of me. So then we just got really goofy, really fun, and I got her taking big steps and balancing on spinal straps and rolling over Bosu balls and just all different types of things. And she went from being very tired and shy in class to like bouncing off the walls and all of a sudden her gait changed like massive.

So it was a blend of meeting her biomechanically and a blend of seeing past that and what was going on internally a bit for her, if that makes sense.

Susi: Absolutely, to me it makes sense. So I want to take another layer deeper, because I've recently named some phases of the development of a yoga therapist. Where there's like that first phase, where I've got about 10 bullet points where the fundamental piece is just tell me what I need to do to fix somebody.

Like what's the protocol? What's the template? Like what's actually wrong here? What needs to be done in order to change something? And that tends to be where a lot of people start. Even though they know there's not a fix, per se, they're still of that mindset of like what's the more natural way of helping this person get out of pain?

And then they move towards wanting, like what's the biomechanical reason for why this is happening? And just tell me the muscle, tell me the bone, tell me the joint, tell me the things that I need to do mechanically. Then they start to recognize that there is something to this where the pain is, is not the problem.

And they start seeing beyond where the area, like so in your case that you talked about, the 11 year old, that it's maybe something beyond the feet, for example. So maybe there's something going on that’s beyond the feet. And yet, there's still this desire to utilize the biomechanics in a way of, well, there's still something not working here so let's alter the thing that's not working. And then there's a number of different things that go along with that way of thinking.

And then there's this evolution too, whereas before, and though I didn't mention it, there is an evolution to yes, we know that personality and we know that sort of someone's constitution, we know that someone's state of being has an impact. But now there's like this infusion of the expression of their mechanics as being this expression of who they are, yeah?

Kris: Exactly.

Susi: And so can you pinpoint what had you go there? I mean, obviously, with the training that you've got, that enabled you to go there. But I'm just thinking of the people who are listening and they're thinking, “All right, how do I do this?”

Kris: What made me go there was that I got results. So again, it wasn't just the feet, it was something beyond the feet. I started looking at further up the chain. I looked at some hips, and really saw some stuff in the hips. Saw some stuff through the torso, the shoulder girdle, so way beyond the feet.

So I got results there from sticking with the biomechanics kind of lens. But then I was like, okay, there's something, I was just like there’s something so much more. And the more she showed up in front of me, the more I got to know her and her background. The more information I gathered, I just felt like I'm just going to go out on a really weird whim here and like I'm just getting this inner sense of like there’s something that she needs to break out.

And actually what it was is as I kept kind of poking and prodding with questions about school life and how was things there, like just gently, she kind of let me in. I'm like, okay, there's some confidence issues here. Like this girl needs to step into the superpower that she is. And that's what it was. It was like I want this girl’s superpower to come out, and how can I just play with that? That was the thing that was like, I'm just going to go and give this a shot.

So I took everything and threw it aside and just made the goofiest, most hilarious, we laughed. There was laughing, just doing the most weirdest movements because I realized everything I was doing with her was very controlled. Very, okay, we're going to work on your foot and your hip doing this thing. I really want you to work on this and that and it was very structure, structure, structure. I’m like I want to just get out of that structure completely, that was the thing.

And then after that, her mom looked at me and we also had one of my clients that was friends coming in and sitting in the sessions because one of my clients had worked with me so long she would go and help her with the movements at home. So it's kind of this little sweet thing they had going on. And they both, we all looked at each other and we went like, okay, yep, that was it.

Because before every session I’d get her to walk and I’d record her sometimes just to watch her gait. And then after the session I walk and watch her gait. And so her parents, we can all just see the results happening. But this session, the session I really got goofy and all over the place, the gate was like you couldn't even tell she had feed poking inwards.

And she had a confidence, and a stride, and her hips and pelvis was rotating better. And like it was like full body, like I got this, like I'm the queen here. And so that was the word I kind of used was, you're the queen. This is your superpower, you know, and kind of step into that. And she started to get it.

Susi: And so what happened after that? Because that was obviously a big line in the sand. What happened after that? Are you still seeing her?

Kris: Yeah, I am. I just transitioned into my home studio so we've had a little bit of a break because of me just moving and then setting up and doing a renovation. So we'll be getting back out at it here pretty soon.

What happened after that though, was like in our sessions, I think we had one more session after that, or two more sessions after that. And what happened was just like a friendship started to bond between us, it was like fun. So like the client to teacher relationship shifted where it was like, hey, Kris, high five. Like how you doing? What's up girl? How you doing today? Instead of like, okay, hey, you know, that's where you start.

You start in this really like professional setting and trying to really help the person. And we just blend it into like a sister brother type kind of, was what it felt like for me, at least. Just this fun started to happen. It was always fun, but it just took it to the next level.

Susi: And what are her feet like now? What's the gait like now?

Kris: When she is, it correlates with what's happening internally. It changes all the time and she knows it now. So I'm trying to get her, that's the next step now is like, okay, when your friend points out your gait when you're at the playground, like what else is happening? Who knows what's happening on the playground these days with kids? Everyone knows that's a tough place.

It changes all the time and her parents see it, I see it. And so now it's like if we can have her recognize that her gait, her feet going inward is not actually the thing, but it's just an indicator that something else maybe up internally for her, that's just another level for her to play with.

But she's 11, you know? We have to remember that and anything's possible at 11 too. So how we get her and how we play with it moving forward is like, I don't even know what's going to happen next. That's the fun of it.

Susi: Well, what's so great about this example is, I mean, already you've said so many things that have shone a number of lights. And one of them was clearly where the pain is, is not the problem. And the idea of moving from pain to possibility, which there's a reason why this podcast is named that.

And also what I love to talk about is that posture and structure are distinct. And that how we embody our structure is really what our posture is. And our gait, I think, arises out of that posture. So it becomes really, really interesting to see this play between a person’s structure, meaning everything that's inside of their skin, and all of the pieces and all of the parts.

And looking at them merely as parts, which people can do, we can do. And then what that embodiment of that structure actually is and how that is impacted by mood, attitude, and I mean all sorts of things. And it sounds like you guys are really getting into the whispers now of what's leading toward that, yeah?

Kris: Mm-hmm.

Susi: Really, really cool. And she's 11, so it just goes to show you can be young and have tissue change and you can be older and you can have tissue change. And sometimes people have an impression that if you're young, like 11, there's a lot that can't happen because you're young. But in fact, a lot can happen.

Kris: Mm-hmm. And I guess I’ll just leave with this, like when she first showed up with me I was like, to be honest I'd been doing this for a little while and I’d get results pretty consistently. But I was like, I don't know what to do here.

And now I can like look back and be like, good. I love, like good not knowing what to do. Because that is just an opportunity to step into something you've never done or had a result with before. Being scared and like being afraid, what am I going to do here? Like good, just sit with it, just stay with it. Just keep seeing, keep feeling, it'll come. You know it just comes, it comes.

And you've told us that so much, right? But jeez, you've told me it over time and time and I would still just get super myopic and try to figure it all out. And now that we're kind of on our own, and just kind of letting the wings fly, you just start, it all starts to unravel and come in.

Susi: Really, really cool.

So that's so, so amazing on so many levels, Kris. And it just goes to show, you got the tools, you got the ingredients. Like as you were saying, you kind of threw everything away except you had exactly everything that you needed in order to create your own recipe of sorts, you know, in order to create your own amazing meal. Which was like this session, this series of sessions with this little girl and her family and what that turned into. So it's a great example of there is no template for this, there is no protocol for this.

It's merely there's a person in front of you and you meet them where they're at. And you started where you started and then that evolved, you saw some gains, that it evolved, you added different stimulus, that evolved. And here you are now where you really get to work with her honing this, it sounds like this real expression of who she is.

And holy smokes getting that at 11, being someone who's much older than 11 now is amazing. It's really, really amazing. Really cool.

Kris: Yeah. It's just so fun. Yeah.

Susi: So then this carries on to Jen. Now, Jen, I've known you for a long time and you have worked with women prenatally and postnatally for a long time. And you've really just gotten into the deep end with this since certification, right?

Jen: Yeah.

Susi: So tell us a little, tell us a little bit more about what you're doing.

Jen: Well, I was teaching prenatal online through the pandemic. And then we tried to go back in person a few times and ended up back online. But now I'm just doing it all in person, for now. But I do have, like I do have some courses online that you can do.

But yeah, I think what is really evolving is just this, like I'm not just teaching women how to move their bodies better. I’m teaching them how to embody themselves so that they can trust that within themselves when they have a baby, when they become parents, right?

Like it's not, I feel like it's just so much more than just we're just moving doing warrior one. And yeah, and I think it's cool when people are like, I just want to join the yoga class and just stretch or whatever. I'm like, okay, well, we can start there, and then we probably won't stay there.

Yeah. I've actually noticed in the last few classes we've spent a lot of time like moving, but also really diving into like what are they thinking about? What are they worrying about? What's going on for them? And it's come about very organically, which is what I really love about it.

Susi: So do you find that women come to you to feel better during their pregnancy? And are they coming to you to prepare for delivery? Like, what are they coming into your classes initially that they think? Even though you just said what you're really helping them do is embody themselves in this way to develop this trust that's actually already there, which they can tap into when they become parents, and even through the whole process of pregnancy and delivery.

But when someone initially comes to you, what's the reason that they're coming? Or what are the reasons if there's more than one?

Jen: I think it's initially for just the movement piece. Although I think that now people have heard about my classes, so they want to come because their friend said it was good and helped them with so much more than just movement. So yeah.

Susi: And you're in the midst of almost launching a new online program. So tell me about that program, because you have a lot of it recorded already. You're making some tweaks to the recordings. So tell us about that program.

Jen: So that program is a mix of the movement pieces. So I have like a six week plan of how we go from here to here and just feeling better, understanding how you move, how your body changes, what kind of movements you can add in to feel better, or whatever. All of that movement piece.

And then there's also the piece of like the childbirth education part that I have, like I've taken a childbirth education course and do the course. So just bringing in some of that childbirth education as well as the movement. Which is what I do in my classes anyway, but I feel like the online course will be a little bit more in depth because there's more time and it will be go at your own pace.

Susi: And will that be a program that's geared towards women who are pregnant or thinking about becoming pregnant? Or is it geared for people who are teaching people who are pregnant?

Jen: Oh, definitely towards women who are pregnant or thinking about becoming pregnant. And also, there will be like postpartum stuff too, for after the baby. Like those first, you know, 10, 12 weeks postpartum.

Susi: Because there's that fourth trimester that we like to call it, and it's often a time for women that is such a huge transition. There's this vacuous belly. There's a baby that needs to be fed. There's just all of the transition that happens in that month.

Do you find that women are mostly surprised by that? First time moms are surprised by that fourth trimester?

Jen: I do. So one of the things that I like to do in the prenatal class is spend a lot of time talking about that and preparing people. So we have, usually there's one class where we do 30 minutes and movement and then we do 45 minutes of talking about like what happens after, what to expect? What can you prepare for? How can you ask for help? And how can you implement these systems even before you have the baby so that you know what to expect?

And I think that we have such a baby focused culture that when we can maybe have a new way of thinking about this, like, yes, the baby is really important, but so are you. And so you're going to expect these things to happen. And what kind of care can we bring in and awareness can we bring into this fourth trimester so that you don't end up shocked and like overwhelmed with what's going on?

Yeah, I always find that that class is really well received. And people leave feeling like, okay, I kind of have an idea. Actually, what I really love about teaching that class is that there's always second time moms there who also have so much to offer. So it becomes this really organic conversation, it's not just me teaching. It's like we're learning from each other and we're sharing stuff.

My community is very multicultural, so I've always had a lot of people coming and sharing their cultural traditions with the moms. And it's like, I don't know, I just love, love, love that part so much.

Susi: Well, there's so many ways of being with baby and raising baby and perspectives on it, so that's amazing that you've got such a wide ranging group of women who are coming through the class so that they can share all of that. And each of them are sharing with each other and then getting their own ideas based off of what people are experiencing.

Jen: Yeah.

Susi: So I'm going to circle back to both of you now, when you think about what you're building, what you've built already and what you're building, one of the things that we hear a lot from people who are interested in becoming yoga therapists and are considering certification, one of their concerns is like how do you do it as a mom? How do you do it as someone who's got these other things going on in their lives?

And we've got people who ask that who work full-time. Now in your cases, actually, Kris, you were working full-time while you were taking the program and your wife was going through her graduate program. And then, Jen, you have your other businesses that you are running plus you've got your kids.

So I'm going to start with you, Jen, what would be some advice or words of wisdom or just insight that you have around, is that something people need to be concerned about?

Jen: Well, for me, I just had to get really clear on what was important to me. Like those basic things that are important to me and then work backwards, right? So I figure out where I want to be and then I just create boundaries and schedule my life around that. So I found it to be pretty easy.

I think that we can get a little carried away and over schedule ourselves, and for me that just leads to burnout and not good things. So I have to just create boundaries and just know what's important to me.

Susi: And one of the things that I, I remember a great story that you told and we were in one of our training weeks and you said, “My kids came home and they weren't feeling really well.” They had wagon wheels and some other stuff and they had asked you to buy a bunch of food and they were the ones in charge of getting their lunches ready.

And I'm not sure if that was something new in the certification program that you started having them do. And they were choosing food that you might not have chosen for them. But you just kind of were hands off and saying, “Well, just let them feel what they feel when they have it.” And lo and behold, they come home and they're like, “I don't really feel good. “So do you actually remember that scenario?

Jen: I totally remember that.

Susi: So let me ask you this first, was that a new process for you because of the program, that you had them starting to make their own lunches?

Jen: That was brand new. So I had always done everything for them, which in hindsight maybe wasn't a great idea. So taking the program allowed me to give them a little bit more responsibility. And actually, I think it's grown from there too. Like now I'm like, I don't need to do everything for you guys, you're pretty capable.

But anyway, so yeah, I did let them choose the snacks that they wanted. And I was like, okay, let's see what happens.

Susi: But they learned from it too, right?

Jen: Yeah, absolutely.

Susi: Because your kids are, like the youngest is 10 now. When you were in the program, how old were your three kids?

Jen: I think my youngest was like five or six. So having some responsibility was good for all of them.

Susi: It's a great example though of how to think around like, okay, how do I set this up so that the kids can learn? And yes, they're probably going to be, in my own eyes, sort of failing a little bit, but the failing is actually experiencing for them. And then they get to figure it out in terms of what they feel and how they feel, and you get to guide them in parents and from that stage.

So that's a really, really, really great example. So is there a piece of advice, Jen, that you would give somebody? Is it simply like just know what you want and work backwards? Is there anything else that you might add to someone who's considering but is concerned about their role as a mom and the amount of time that it's going to take and just the other commitment?

Jen: Yeah, I think that when your kids see you doing things that light you up, they really gain something from that too, right? Like they know that this is life, it's exciting, it's fun, you can keep learning. You're setting an example for your kids to see that that's what we do. We keep learning, we take care of ourselves, we learn new things as we go.

And for them even, like they're learning new things too. And because I was, like before the program I was very much like a stay at home mom. I did everything for them. And so I think it has shifted for all of us so many things. I'm still pretty much a stay at home mom, but they also get to see that I work in this job that I love, that they can also take care of themselves. I always remind them like you guys are capable. So like, get yourself some food.

Yeah, I think that for me, it was an understanding that my kids are capable and they can make decisions and they can make bad decisions, right? And they can learn from those decisions and then hopefully make better decisions.

Susi: Really, really love it. Okay, so, Kris, most of the people that come through our program would identify as women. You are not one of those people and you still were someone who succeeded in the program. You had a lot on your plate. Now, were you, you were working full time, I think, weren’t you?

Kris: Yes, I was.

Susi: Yeah, some of it was night shift, wasn't it?

Kris: I had to, I had to work a night shift. I actually got myself in a sweet job working as a psychiatric assistant Centennial Centre for Brain Injury and Mental Health here in Ponoka. It’s a huge hospitals known through North America for what it does.

And it's eight hour shifts, so I was able to, I could pick up the 7 to 3:30, the 3:30 to 11:15, or the 11:15 to the 7am. So when all the, when the workload increased I just did the night shift. And most of the time on night shift I would be sitting on constant observation with somebody, they’re usually sleeping, I can get a lot done.

And I had to then very quickly blend exactly what I was learning on self-care, how to take care of yourself, rejuvenating, down regulating work to balance out the interruption of a natural circadian rhythm. So right away I was learning the work, applying it into my own life. And then we started working with clients.

I made it work. And there was a lot on the go, I was the only income to bring in for our family while my wife was in school. And if I can do it, anyone can do it. It was wild.

Susi: Because you actually, like your wife had a baby during the program.

Kris: Yeah, so then we had a newborn.

Susi: So there's your wife who's going to school, and her school was very rigorous to, right?

Kris: Hugely rigorous. Unbelievably rigorous, like puts you in burnout rigorous.

Susi: And she has a newborn, obviously, has a baby. And your role in the family at this point is you're the one bringing in the income for the family and you're in school as well.

Kris: Mm-hmm.

Susi: Mm-hmm. So can you give a few examples of, like you were talking about self-care. And self-care inside of the certification program is just huge because in my mind if we're teaching people about self-care, if we're teaching people how to nurture themselves, then we've got to be living it. Like we've got to.

So like the first training, like training week in our module three program is all about self-care. And we even speak about it in the earlier pieces. However, can you give a couple of examples of how you integrated those concepts in what sounds to be a very rigorous schedule?

Kris: Yeah. First, I want to just say one thing based on what you said. I want to build off that, then I'm going to answer that. If you aren't living the work and trying to teach it to people, you're just not going to be that effective.

I just want to add into that because that really lands because there was a time where I wasn't living the work and trying to teach it to people. And then there was a time where I was deeply living the work and teaching it to people. And the results that I would get were just day and night, you know?

So what was I doing? Is that what the question, coming back to the question, Susi, what was I doing?

Susi: So I was able to find out from Jen and reminded Jen around this idea of like the wag the wagon wheels, I still laugh at that, like having the kids prepare their lunch. So when you're thinking about what you were doing for self-care, what you were doing to really integrate.

So not just as a fix it strategy, but when you were in that place of really being able to integrate it, what were you doing? Or what led you into that place of really integrating? Because, again, the schedule that you've just shared, and I remember it really well, it was a rigorous schedule that you were holding down.

Kris: I would say it actually kind of comes down to time management in a way. There's two things I'm thinking of, one is time management and the other is just like how I am just being in life. How I am showing up and just who am I being and what do I stand for?

So the time management side is like I knew that, okay, I'm getting off work at this time, I'm going to have to sleep at this time. And we actually wrote it, we drew it out every day in blocks and time blocked it. Where do I get to put a practice in for myself or an intentional half an hour, or an intentional hour? Where are those times where I can really practice the work that I'm doing on more of like a structural level?

But then, as we know as we get into this yoga therapy world, it's not just about like how you do something for an hour, it's just like how you start to embody the work, as Jen mentioned earlier really wonderfully. You just start to step inside a new way of being for yourself and your family. And I just found that there is this groove that I could show up as, there is this soft, gentle side of myself that could show up, but that could also work and get a lot of things done at a high effective and efficiency rate.

So I could be fast, but I could be slow at the same time. Or I could be sharp, but I could also be a little dull if I needed to and just like sit on the couch and just hold, you know? I just found a way to blend those two in a way that I wasn't feeling like I was losing any more energy that I needed to.

Like I find sometimes we can like I need to get all this stuff done, so we go and get all this stuff done. We go at 100 miles an hour, we're burning through energy that we don't actually need to burn through to get the same stuff done. So I kind of was playing with that a bit.

And I think it would be like, another good example is like, okay, we still have to get groceries and we got to do some housecleaning. It's like, well, here's a time where I can do that, be completely aware of my body, and listen to some educational stuff for school. And then I can find this really cool way of just doing it all and not feeling like I have to sacrifice one for the other.

Susi: Yeah, that's really great. And how do you think you’re going through that period of time has set you up for where you're at now in terms of how you're living your life?

Kris: Well, I think it just creates resiliency. I think when you put yourself through a really hard, or not hard, like just a time that requires so much of you, you just learn so many great skills.

You learn not just skills, but how to be through those skills and those times so that as new challenges present themselves as new opportunities, you just have like a baseline to refer to. You've just kind of up leveled your game, so that's just where you're at now and you just get to operate on that level.

And as new challenges come their way there will be things you just need to refine and just keep being aware of what needs to be refined, what's working, what's not working. And right now I'm in one of those times. I'm kind of in this really great transition time where I've got an opportunity to do more with my schedule and that is exciting for me. And also kind of like, I got really comfortable with what I was doing.

So again, new challenges present themselves, and just taking everything you learned forward.

Susi: That's really great. So if there was a piece of advice that you would have for someone who's considering the program, has a really full life already and is a little bit concerned, then what would you offer them?

Kris: What advice? I would actually ask them a question, I would ask them if you don't follow and do the thing that really drives you or really aligns with your values, like if you didn't do that thing, then what is your life like? Like how is that fulfilling?

I would say anything is possible and you can do it, but also if you didn't do it, like what does that feel like? You know, like go into to the other side of it. Would it be, oh, no, I'm just going to say no again? Like sit in that world for a bit, you know? Like, yeah, I would just, I would just say it's so possible. It's so possible and it's going to be hard and it's going to make you so much more effective and better as a person. So it's like, it's just so worth it. It's worth the effort, it's worth the try. I’d just say just go for it.

Susi: This has been really, really great. Jen, did you want to add anything more after what Kris just said?

Jen: I just really love what Kris said. I really agree with that because sometimes not doing the thing is harder than doing the thing.

Susi: And that is a great place to wind this one up. So if people wanted to reach out to you, Kris, how would people find you? What's the best way?

Kris: They could find me on Facebook, True Connection Yoga Therapy. And they can find me on, my email address would be Inglis, I-N-G-L-I-S, Kris, K-R-I-S, @gmail.com would be the best ways to reach me.

Susi: All right, and that's going to be in the show notes so people can find that there. And Jen, how about you? How can people find out about you and find out about this new online course that you are going to launch soon?

Jen: I'm on Instagram at Jen Vanderland. And I have a website, which is jennifervanderland.offeringtree.com. And there's some courses already there, but there will be new ones launching as well.

Susi: Really, really great. So reach out to these two folks, they are a really great example of what is possible and how you can make it work. And really not just make it work, but really elevate the experience of stepping into a potential that you know inside is there for you. And it would be a dream of mine to help you get there.

So thank you again, Kris and Jen.

Jen: Thanks, Susi. So great to see you.

If this episode has resonated and you're looking to deepen this idea of getting your body back on board, of listening deeply to your symptoms, of listening to the whispers so you don't have to hear the screams and you're looking for one to one support or professional training, then reach out to us at [email protected] where we can customize your learning path. That's hea[email protected], looking forward to hearing from you.

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