Male Announcer: You’re listening to From Pain to Possibility with Susi Hately. You will hear Susi’s best ideas on how to reduce or even eradicate your pain and learn how to listen to your body when it whispers so you don’t have to hear it scream. And now here’s your host, Susi Hately.

Susi: Welcome and welcome back. And I am so excited that you are here today because today I have two really, really special guests. I invited Maria Hykin, and Nicole Nanfra onto this podcast episode because they are in the certification program. And they are in, basically, the second month of the final module.

And I’ve often interviewed people well into the final module or as graduates, and it’s one thing to talk with people when they’ve really gotten their groove, or they’ve graduated and are well on their way. It’s a totally different game when we’re two months in. And I thought why not share with you what it’s like two months into the final module?

And what’s particularly fun about this recording is right now you might be able to tell from my voice, it’s 5am here in Calgary and Maria is in Cozumel are on Cozumel and it’s 6am for her. Nicole is down in Melbourne, Australia, and it’s 9pm for her. And so this is truly an international episode.

And the other reason too is not only are we two months in, but I’m in Calgary, Maria is in Cozumel, and Nicole is in freaking Australia. This is not uncommon. I cater to an international audience being that my program is online and more.

So here I am. We’re going to have a conversation of what it’s like two months in, why on earth Maria and Nicole even chose this program and just the real life reality of what it’s all about.

So Maria, and Nicole, welcome. I’m so glad that you’re here.

Nicole: Thank you so much.

Maria: Thank you, hello.

Susi: So where I thought I would begin is a classic question: why this program? And why don’t we start with you Nicole? Why did you decide to even do it? Why did you decide to enroll?

Nicole: Well, lucky for me, it all went online because I’d been looking at the program when I started my yoga teaching journey, and that was probably seven years ago. And I was watching you from afar in the courses and I was just thinking, how am I going to get to Canada? How’s that going to happen? I just kept watching and just sort of manifesting without knowing.

And then we had the pandemic, and you went online. And then you started doing all those 5ams on Facebook and so I just sort of started doing that. And then it was just like, I’m going to do this. I’m going to do this course. And it was just really right timing, and I just wanted to do it. And I was really happy to do it all online. It was just magnificent timing. Was that the question?

Susi: You did a great job, that’s great. Maria, how about you? What was your journey to get here? Why did you choose the program?

Maria: Well, as you know, I met you some many years ago, maybe 11 years ago when you were here on a cruise ship. And this is how I learned about you. And ever since I started following you everywhere, on Facebook or wherever you were at the time, and taking courses here and there. You know, smaller courses that were available online.

And I bought into your concept, your way of teaching right away. It spoke to me very well. And pretty much for all these years I was like I want to take this program, I want to take this program. But just like Nicole, well it’s intensive and it’s a lot of travel. A lot of travel time, a lot of travel destinations.

And I was always postponing, postponing, postponing. But I’m like, no, no, no, one day. One day, I’m going to do it. And then you went online and I’m like, yes, this is the time. So yes, and the reason, the program being online is awesome and I can take it, this as the logistical part.

But the reason why I wanted to take this program in general is because of all the little courses that I did with you and just following you on Facebook and understanding better and better these concepts, and also applying them to myself and already to my clients, I just knew the power of this. And I knew that one day I need to go really all in and learn everything you have to share.

Susi: Yes, and it’s funny because I remember meeting you. I think I actually posted on Facebook, who knows of retreat centers on Cozumel? And my husband and I, I was having a really, really busy, busy year and I just wanted a vacation of nothing. And yeah, we had a stop off in Cozumel and we had a tour. And I’m looking forward to seeing you again in December, having another tour when we’re actually down in Mexico. And, yes, it’s going to be a fun time down there.

All right, so you took the intensive, both of you, in October. And just to give perspective, the intensive is really the primary foundational program to the whole process and it builds upon all the online foundational programs from the Power of Pure Movement series, the Your Age Doesn’t Matter series and Power of Pits and all that.

The intensive is the six day program. So you each have taken the six days, you took them in October. No, it was April. Wait a second, I’ve got my months mixed up.

Nicole: Yeah, it was in April.

Susi: You took it in April.

Maria: I was going to say, it hasn’t been that long.

Susi: I’m mixing my months. Okay, so it was April 2023, and now we’re in August. So we’re in four months since you took the intensive. The integration module, which is module three, began in June. So we’ve got about four months.

So how are things different now than they were before the intensive? Like where do you feel your skill is at? Where’s your confidence? Where’s your clarity? How about things going on with clients? However you want to add to it? Maria, what about you? How about we start with you with that question?

Maria: All right, well, as I mentioned before I have been integrating your teachings, the yellow lights and the pain is not where the problem is or really where the problem is, and all that. I had already been doing it for some years. But when I took the intensive, and especially the intensive was a really great kind of review of everything that I learned from you here and there, you know, bits and pieces. So the intensive was a nice overview of like, oh, this is it.

And the difference between now and the intensive, even the four months, is still absolutely stunning even though I feel like I’ve been working with the concepts for years. But before, I still tried to fit different conditions like back pain, neck pain, hip pain, whatever into various templates. But now I’m like 100% no, that imposing any templates on any living, breathing person is a completely futile task.

And so I just look at every client as a completely individual case and meeting people where they’re at in their body, energy, even mood. Just see what’s going on. And each time seeing better and better because this is what you’re teaching us, to just see better and to see how the body creates movement, and how stability, mobility, and all that wonderful stuff can be improved.

And not through a series of exercises, as I kind of used to prescribe for my clients, but really through an exploration together with a client. That’s just absolutely different.

Susi: So cool. How about you, Nicole, what’s different for you?

Nicole: Well, when we took the intensive, that was kind of like a sneak peek into what was possible. And it felt like we were actual clients in a therapy session, and you were our therapist, but it was allowing us to sort of go behind the scenes. So we got to experience the actual teaching, plus the what and the how, which was relevant to the experience that we brought in from our previous lives.

And I mean, it was really intensive. And that’s why it’s called an intensive, there was so much to absorb. And I’m still going back and rewatching the recordings, but now I’m picking up so much more because every time I watch it, something else lands. And I think too, because I’m not doing it in the middle of the night, some stuff might float over.

But the big difference is now that I’ve had that actual firsthand experience with my practice clients. So when I rewatch the recordings, it just gets even more and more relevant as my client experience grows. So the way that you’ve planned now that we just, like our first 15 people or our first 15 hours is just watching. We’re not making assessments, we’re not coming up with solutions, we’re just learning to watch how people move.

So I’m having such a better understanding of watching the body and its relationships with the other body parts. And I’m not actually getting worried about actual anatomical workings or specific parts. So I’m better at bringing it all together and just trusting my intuition and just recalling stuff. But it’s just crazy how stuff comes up in a therapy session and then you just recall something that we did together and just the pennies drop. I don’t know if that makes sense.

But I’m also better at noticing compensations people are bringing in. And I think I’m just feeling so much more confident because I never would have dreamed of being able to get someone out of pain, but I actually have with my practice people. And I sometimes just can’t believe I’m actually doing this stuff and it’s working.

Susi: Isn’t that great? And it’s interesting, there was somebody else in your cohort who actually said, “Is it really this simple?”

Nicole: Simple.

Susi: Right? And the distinction is that simple is very different than easy. And it’s really, really important that I say that because I don’t want people to at all think that what I’m saying is easy. It is straightforward and I do think sometimes we are looking for the supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. And we don’t necessarily have to, but it gets –

Like, Maria, when you think about it, before you were using a lot more templates like here, do this for the back or do this for this or do this for that. And then you started to see, because you’ve got a bit more runway than Nicole, you’re starting to see it a bit more broadly now. Even, Nicole, you are as well. And would you say that you’re seeing many more connections to what’s contributing to the back doing what it’s doing?

Maria: Absolutely, absolutely. And not only I see it, but actually through, because the way you teach us and I love that it’s gradual, right, these practice cases, like Nicole mentioned, it’s like 15 cases you just watch what’s happening. Then you add a little bit more complexity, a little bit more complexity.

But I was able, through this, to really refine my seeing and refine my verbiage of how I communicate to the client. And I noticed that my verbiage became simpler also and it lands much better. And so it’s not only my seeing experience that I see what contributes to the back pain or neck pain or whatever pain in the whole body, but also my clients reflect it back to me and they’re like, oh my God. Oh my God, apparently my rib cage has something to do with my hips. Oh, this is magic. So it’s really awesome.

Susi: So let’s actually, because we’re talking about the practicum, let’s go there for a bit because sometimes people get surprised that I begin the practicum right at the beginning. So we enter into the integration piece of the program, and we’ve got five different training weeks and weekly teaching.

And we’ve asked you to begin your practicum. And lots of people wonder, how? We don’t know enough yet to do a practicum. And there are a lot of programs out there that have their process where they teach all the intellectual information first and then you do the practicum at the end.

And the reason I like to bring it right at the beginning is, as Maria and Nicole have already mentioned, I do it in a stepwise way. So we have a process where it’s like the first 15, here is where I want your focus to be. And then your next 20 cases, this is where I’d like you to direct your focus. And then the next 20 after that, this is where I want you to direct your focus.

So it’s not expecting you to help someone out of pain in the first session, but rather let’s break that case down into its components. So when you’re working with a client, you’re breaking down how you are working with a client into its components so that you’re actually practicing those components.

And so, so fascinating, this is one of the things that I’ve just gotten so much joy out of as your guys’ trainer, is that even in the very, very basic nature of what I’ve guided you to do, your clients are actually reducing pain.

So Nicole is nodding her head quite vigorously right now. So is that kind of blowing your mind a little bit? I mean, you made reference to that a little bit. So say more about what’s contributing to that craziness you’re experiencing with that.

Nicole: Well, there’s two parts of this because I think as a yoga teacher I always kind of felt, oh, there are parts in this. Like if some client would come to me and say, oh yeah, I’ve got a slipped disc or I’ve got this problem wherever, I would kind of get this little fear or concern and think, oh, that’s not me. I haven’t had a formal education in health or health science and I’m not a specialist.

I wanted to be a physio, but I didn’t get the marks. So I did a damn degree in marketing, and I hated it. So I always thought I could never help someone get out of pain, obviously. But here I am doing this stuff now and I’m actually getting people out of pain. I got myself out of pain just from, as you say, bringing it back and just coming back to these simple movements, the way the body is meant to move.

Anyone can do that. Anyone can, if you know how that body part is supposed to move and you see it moving or you don’t see it moving, that’s the simplicity of it. And I guess we get better at looking at the other stuff that’s coming on, all the compensations. So I guess it comes back to thinking about the practicum right at the start, feeling is believing.

So we saw it happen live in our sessions. And we saw the people in our group having major shifts and insights for themselves. And then I got to do some of this stuff. Even today I helped somebody. He’s got bone on bone hip issue, and I did something on a block with him and he got off and he just went, “Oh my God, the pain is not there.” And he knew, like we were all sensible about it, and he knew as soon as he starts walking again throughout the day the pain is going to come back.

But for that moment he didn’t have pain. And he’s just like, going, wow. And I’m going, wow. It was incredible. And afterwards I was just on such a high that I could help him because he didn’t think this was possible, right? So that was just, that’s why I’m nodding my head vigorously because it’s crazy.

Susi: Right, and so we’re two months into this final module and this is what’s happening for Nicole. And this is not Nicole’s only story. This is becoming a common theme when she’s working with people. And then where I get to work with her as the months progress, how does she then help her client have more longer term gain? Like longer term reduction.

So that pain continues to reduce, and it stays in that space for a longer period of time because the neuromuscular patterns are starting to shift and the other aspects that I teach and that the other trainers teach within the program support this, I don’t love this word but the only one that really matches it, it’s like a transformational change. That’s what is ultimately happening with the human beings that we’re working with because there is a shift in tissue.

And it’s not just, like with someone with persistent pain there’s more than an adjustment that’s required. There’s more than a session of body work that’s required. And there’s certainly times that we’ve all had bumps, we’ve all had falls, we’ve all had owies that have occurred that are a big deal, I don’t want to lessen them. And getting something like an adjustment or some body work done, can really, really be helpful.

And when we have a persistency of issues, more is required. And that might involve multiple adjustments and multiple bodywork sessions. And ultimately, we need to be retraining neuromuscular patterns. And so however you go about doing that, whether it’s a process that I offer or somebody else offers, that is something that is required.

And so when you start to change these neuromuscular patterns and involve some of the other aspects that we teach in the program, fundamental change can happen, like truly. And another reason I’ve got these two on is it can happen this soon. Like two months in, I know I’ve said that a few times now. I’m the one nodding vigorously now. It’s like two months in and it happens. It can happen quite quickly. Your skill can grow quite quickly as you go through the process.

So Maria, did you want to add anything to that?

Maria: Well, I completely agree with what Nicole said and what you said. And what I personally love is that you start the practicum right at the beginning of the program and then just kind of add a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more with each case study batch. I think that, for me, it really develops my ability to see gradually versus needing to focus on everything at once. Like first you see this. Then you see this. Then you see this. And this is how you develop this confidence and this trust in yourself.

And secondly, what it really reinforces for me is the idea that even if we have all the knowledge in the world, biomechanics, neuromuscular, neuroanatomical, whatever it is, we still may not fully understand what’s happening in a person’s body. And that’s okay because if you don’t do it as a prescription model, the templated model, but actually work together with your client and give them agency instead of them relying on you for this prescription, then they really started paying attention.

And this is when this magic really happens. Like this is the healing double helix that you’re always talking about, the feedback between the client and the therapist. And so, for me, it’s like, yeah, it’s okay not to know. And doing these case studies gradually from the very beginning, of course we don’t know everything, but that’s okay because we can still help. And it’s uncanny.

Susi: Yeah, really well said. That’s really lovely.

If you had a fear before you came into the program, what was it and how has it shifted, if it’s shifted?

Nicole: I think that, well, as I sort of touched on before that because I didn’t go down the formal education path, I probably never felt that confidence. That was probably the biggest fear for me. And that actually kind of carried through a lot of my time as a yoga teacher. I was concerned more about whether I had people in my class or if they liked me or liked my class teachings, and so I sort of lost my way a bit teaching.

But now I feel like I just know that what I’m doing is actually really working, so it’s just given me incredible confidence. So my confidence has shifted enormously. And I think the way that you just take us through, there’s always this underlying support that’s just always there. And it just feels like there’s a little safety blanket underneath us all, that you’ve got our back.

And so that just feels like we’re being supported the whole way through. I don’t feel out on my own, even though I’m on the other side of the world completely. It’s a really beautiful growing experience that we’re all experiencing together.

You can just see these little shifts in our time together online. And where there’s tears, and there’s laughs, and there’s people, you know, Maria, remember when you started, you used to have that hat on because you’d be going through a migraine. I haven’t seen that on you for such a long time.

Maria: Yes, yes.

Nicole: So there’s many beautiful sharing experiences, so it’s just amazing how you can connect and yet be so far away. So yeah, that’s my shift.

Susi: I love it. I love it. Yay for the pandemic. There is a silver lining right there. How about you, Maria, what was a fear that was present that may not be as prevalent now?

Maria: Well, definitely confidence, like Nicole was saying. I guess because I used your concepts already before to get out of migraines myself and it worked until I got Covid. And then something else happened and Covid happened, and I started getting migraines. And now I’m getting better again, as Nicole was mentioning.

But I would still be doubting, like if I didn’t understand what was happening in somebody’s case. Like, oh, why their back hurts, I don’t understand. I don’t have this knowledge. And I would be doubting myself in terms of what movements to choose, what sequence is appropriate. I guess I had some fears around messing things up for them even more.

And now I don’t have any fear around that because I know that if we move slowly, in the pain-free range of motion and really exploring what happens as we go together, exploring this with this feedback loop, what needs to be done next will just reveal itself. And I have enormous trust in this. That’s like a shift that is completely liberating.

Susi: So fun. So fun, I love that. And then on the flip side but related, what has surprised you most about the gains that you’ve made in these first couple months?

Nicole: For me, it’s probably just the simplicity of it. And I know we keep saying it’s simple, but perhaps more the easefulness of it. So understanding. I’m having a much better experience with people. Two clients who have the idea to push through the pain and no pain, no gain, changing that idea for them.

And understanding that there’s so much magic and so much more to be gained by finding ease and not pushing and not being in pain and not growing that, but actually growing the opposite. That’s been fundamental, I think, for me.

Susi: That’s so fun. So teaching people about not needing to move in a pain range of motion, but what are the other opportunities that they could actually move in?

And it’s tricky, right? Because we have cultures where, and I say cultures because we each live in a very different culture, that there is some level of belief that we need to move in pain. And that’s a whole other conversation about why that exists. And what you’re helping people move through, it’s a different paradigm of thinking about what’s available and what’s possible for their bodies.

Nicole: Absolutely. And I think that we experienced that in the practicum, because that’s what you were doing with us. And we had people with all kinds of stuff going on and we were just bringing it back, keeping it really small, staying simple, just finding that ease. And it’s beautiful to then actually experience that ease in your body.

It’s like it is magical to feel a body that is functioning correctly. And it goes into everything else. It improves the way you sleep, the way you eat, the way you move in the world. So it’s pretty incredible.

Susi: So good. How about you, Maria, what would you add to that?,

Maria: Well, I would add, again, there’s no need to overcomplicate things and it surprised me how quickly and completely I started refining my language, making it much, much simpler. It actually lands much better with the clients. And how much better I see. And before I actually thought I saw quite a bit, but now I’m like, oh my God, I see so, so, so much more.

And it’s reflected in the clients as well. Like one of my clients just a couple of days ago, she’s like, oh my God, I feel like I have a new pelvis and a new rib cage, I didn’t know they could move this way. She’s like, you’re giving me new body parts. I’m like, no, that’s not me, that’s you. You’re gaining them.

And that’s another thing that kind of surprised me in a brilliant way, is trusting my role in the process, in this healing process. Because before, even though I followed all the steps or whatever, I still kind of saw myself as a prescriber of templates, right?

And naturally, my clients saw me as somebody who gives me some kind of tasks to do. And now my role completely shifted, like you said on one of our sessions lately, and it was a huge wow for me that just your presence is enough. You don’t need to even hold space or do anything super special. Just be there, see what’s happening, listen to what they’re saying or not saying, and just kind of work together on this.

And so yeah, my role completely also shifted in a very, very nice way. And I have to add that my clients’ favorite exclamation during our sessions right now in these last couple of months is like, this is magic. How is it possible that such simple things can have such profound effects?

And when they say it I know, and of course I reflect it back to them, that it’s not because I gave them the right sequence, an effective prescription. But because they have agency in this and their body/brain, brain/body, whatever you call it, creates all this wonderful change. And then really, it is magical.

Susi: That’s so lovely the way you said that, because when someone has that ownership and you are a teacher and a trusted adviser and you’re helping them really gain it, then yeah, there is magic there because there’s a listening to their own selves, right? There’s listening.

We model the listening process that we’re teaching them, right? We’re listening to them and they’re in that space, in that presence. Yeah, there’s a transition where they then are doing it for themselves because of the way that we’re teaching them, and ultimately that we’re modeling it for them too, right?

Maria: Yes.

Susi: So good. So if there was somebody listening to this, Nicole, and they were in Australia, we’ll start with that one, they’re in Australia. They’re far away, there might be a time zone difference, because you have flipped your day sometimes to attend these sessions. They are far away, there is a time zone difference, there’s an uncertainty around that. What are words for them that you might offer up through making a decision about coming at least to the intensive to start with, or even the whole thing?

Nicole: Well, I think you’re either all in or you’re not. And I think if this is something that you really want to do, yes, it’s challenging, and you have to work around it. But I think it’s your mindset and you’ve just got to, you know, that’s what I did that first intensive. I think it started at midnight and so I just thought, okay, well, how am I going to manage this?

So I just had to think about getting to sleep earlier. And I just thought, well, if I can, I was lucky enough to be able to have a nap during the day when the day continued. I think we finished at 8:30 in the morning my time. But I just thought, okay, this is my week, this is what I’m going to do, and I can do it.

I can do it. I just have to look after myself and prioritize my sleep, my eating. And my family were all supportive. So yeah, I just did it. I just did it. I just sort of thought it’s something I really wanted, and I’d been thinking about it forever. And I just thought, I am going to do it. I’m going to go all in.

And it’s been fine. I was really surprised, actually, how easily I adapted. And I think a lot of it was just my mental thoughts. Rather than getting on the whole train of, oh my god, I’m so tired and it’s like jet lag, I just thought, no, I’m not. I’m okay. I’m okay, I’ve got this.

The other bonus is that the sessions are recorded. So for some of the sessions that might be happening at 2am my time or 1am, I can come back to those the next day, I can watch them the next day they’re posted. So that’s really helpful. Really good.

Susi: Lovely. And, Maria, if there’s anyone who was questioning whether to actually jump in, what would you offer to them?

Maria: Oh my god so much. I’ll try to be concise. Well, first of all, somehow I didn’t even realize that this process is not just those modules or whatever you call them, those integration sessions that are a week long, seven hour days that are very intensive. So I kind of thought that this would be it throughout the year. And I was pleasantly surprised that actually there is this huge support throughout the whole year.

So we have calls every Tuesday. There is some content released every so often. And there is always so much amazing stuff, and I am running out of adjectives when I do the write ups that you ask us to do, like, put your aha moments. And I’m like, brilliant, this is brilliant. This is another brilliant column. I’m like, okay, I have to figure out another adjective for this.

But even more than that, there’s a lot of support and a lot of learning that you do and you kind of never forget. Like in between the sessions, you don’t forget it. You go on and on and on and just integrate it better and better and better each time.

But I think even more than that, this is not a program that, again, teaches something templated, right? Teaches like a set of exercises for back pain or a set of exercises for whatever, head pain, whatever it is. But first and foremost it’s, the way I see it, it’s a healing process for people who take it because it really teaches me how to see what’s happening in the body and get the evidence that once you really clean up your movement pattern, everything gets better. And not only pain wise in the body, but in the quality of life itself.

Susi: So good. And just to reiterate what these two are saying, there’s the therapeutic yoga intensive, which is a standalone program. And that one’s happening this fall. And then the integration is the five training weeks throughout a 14 month period of time. And then we have weekly calls between those.

And then practicum throughout. And we use a Slack channel to communicate and that’s also where people can also ask more questions and post more videos of clients that they’re seeing. And Kirsten, who’s one of our anatomy and biomechanics trainers, and I, plus our Ayurveda trainer are on that Slack channel.

So really, they’ve got daily access to us informally, and then formally through those training weeks plus the weekly calls that they have. So yeah, it’s intensive. I think the important piece here is it’s a serious program. And sometimes people will look at yoga training programs as being sort of a fun to do thing. And that is not this.

This is a professional training program for people who want to integrate yoga therapeutically in a way that helps people reduce and eradicate persistent pain. And you’ve also heard that Maria has been playing around with migraines and working with migraines, and we’ve had other people on this podcast to have helped their husbands. Jennifer, a couple weeks ago we posted a recording with her about her and her husband. It’s beyond just orthopedic type of things.

And I work with a persistency of these symptoms, is what we’re working with. And it’s for people who want to apply this, whether they want to work part time or whether they want to work full time, but for the most part they’re going to be running their own businesses.

So I’m not training people to get a job somewhere, although you could. I think the freedom and the real difference that we can make, I’ve got a certain bias toward helping people grow their own client base in a way that really works for them, that really makes their heart sing.

And so if that’s something that you’re looking for, then do email us at [email protected]. If you want to read about the intensive, you can read about that at learn.functionalsynergy.com/intensive.

And if you want to speak to any of our grads, or any of our trainees more about this program because to get it from them, which is one reason I brought these two on the podcast, to get it from those people you’ll get the real deal. So I’m happy, happy to introduce you to people if you would like to speak to them to get more information than you’re getting here.

I think to finish up, is there anything else that either of you want to add before we finish up this episode?

Nicole: Thanks, I wanted to just add on, as Maria said, just that it’s only been a couple of months, but it’s already far exceeded my expectations just with the support, with all the access to education, all the stuff we have access to including past modules of things. We’ve got a plethora of information that we can dip into and dip out of. If it doesn’t land now, it might land another time.

But I’m just so excited about the next coming months because we’ve got so much ahead of us. And I’m just like, if this is happening now, what are we going to be like at the end? It’s going to be crazy. Thank you.

Susi: You’re welcome. Awesome. How about you, Maria?

Maria: Well, you mentioned that it’s a serious program and not for fun. And I know what you mean by that, but I want to say it is a lot of fun.

Susi: It is fun.

Maria: It is a lot of fun. If you have a passion for helping people get out of pain and you want to grow your confidence in this and your skill of seeing what’s happening, it’s just amazingly fun. For me, it’s just every call has been a revelation of sorts. And every conversation on Slack is like, oh my God, you can do this, you can do this. It is a lot of fun for me.

So yes, it is intensive. Yes, it is very serious and it’s time consuming, it’s a real commitment, but a lot of fun.

Nicole: Yeah, agreed. It’s so good. So good.

Susi: Love, love, love, love. All right, so if you are someone who wants to reach out to Maria or Nicole and you actually want to work with them, that’s also another opportunity too, then we’re going to be posting ways to access them.

Nicole doesn’t have her website up yet, so if you want to reach Nicole, if you’re based in Australia or down in that area and you want to be connected with her, send me an email and then I’ll give an introduction to Nicole.

And then Maria, where can people find you? What’s your website?

Maria: QuietTransformation.com.

Susi: All right, perfect. And we’ll put that into the show notes as well. And any questions that any listeners are having about this, do send me a note to [email protected]. I would love, love, love to support you if this is the next step towards your journey towards being a CIAYT accredited yoga therapist or a yoga therapist. You’re making a big difference in people’s lives.

Thank you, you two. It’s been such a pleasure and we’re going to go for breakfast, Maria. And Nicole, you have a good sleep tonight, all right? Take good care, everybody.

Nicole: Cheers, thanks. Bye.

Maria: Thank you so much, Susi. Thank you, Nicole. Bye.

Susi: Bye bye.